Daily Kos

Honoring John McCain, War Hero

by nussbaumski

Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:13:57 AM PDT

I've noticed, as I'm sure most people have, that whenever Barack Obama criticizes John McCain, he starts out by saying he respects him and that he's a war hero. Typically something like: "I respect Senator McCain and his heroic service to our country, but we can't afford 4 more years of failed Bush economic policies."

Now, initially, I read this as trying to appear as respectful as possibly to McCain, but now I have a different reading. Obama is trying to marginalize McCain as nothing more than a war hero. Let me explain...

The Rovian formula is to attack your opponent where he is the strongest. This strategy turns Rovianism on its head: You build up your opponent where he is the strongest, and thereby marginalize him.

After all, being a war hero is nice, and deserves respect, but does being a war hero make you a good president? Not necessarily.

A war hero clearly deserves our respect, but would you expect him to be good on the economy? Not really.

A war hero is owed a debt of gratitude, but would you expect him to get us out of an unpopular war that needs a political solution, not a military one? Not so much.

Basically, I think the Obama plan may be (or should be) to make John McCain into more of a war hero than he ever dreamed he was. The more people associate their positive feelings about McCain with the fact that they respect his heroism, the less they attach it to the idea that they think he'd make a good president.

Tags: obama, mccain, war hero (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 33 comments

  •  Thoughts & Tips (10+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Urizen, TekBoss, Asinus Asinum Fricat, yinn, Puffin, phrogge prince, RoCali, Emalene, RTAtlanta, bradreiman

    War hero, yes! President, no!

    Good strategery?

    by nussbaumski on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:14:30 AM PDT

  •  Being a "Guest" of the Hanoi Hilton (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimreyn, Asinus Asinum Fricat, justiceputnam, Dreaming of Better Days, One Pissed Off Liberal, phrogge prince, RoCali, RTAtlanta

    Does not mean he is entitled to be President anymore than any of the other guests.

    Saying the Iraq "Surge" worked is like saying Thelma & Louise had a flying car.

    by JML9999 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:22:16 AM PDT

  •  uh...what exactly MAKES him a.... (7+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Asinus Asinum Fricat, justiceputnam, One Pissed Off Liberal, JML9999, BoiseBlue, cachola, RTAtlanta

    ...war hero?...the fact that he was captured and tortured?....part of the job...his torture did nothing to impact anyone else's life but his own...

    ...He is no war hero.

    "Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery." ---Jack Paar

    by bic momma on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:23:28 AM PDT

    •  On this point I respectfully disagree (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phrogge prince

      Sorry.

      And it's a line I can hear coming from the lips of Cheney and Rumsfeld, not about McCain, but about anyone who went through the hell that is Iraq, then dared to criticize the administration.  Tortured?  Eh, part of the job.

      My opinion.  Doesn't mean I think McCain would be any better than Bush as president.

      'It's not the greenhouse gases, it's the white house gases' - David Letterman

      by perky mcjuggs on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:29:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ...call it... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        One Pissed Off Liberal

        Tortured?  Eh, part of the job.

        ...an occupational hazard.

        "Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery." ---Jack Paar

        by bic momma on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:37:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When I think of a Hero or the notion of Heroism (0+ / 0-)

          it is uncommon courage in the face of fear and overwhelming odds.

          All soldiers are "heros" if the only criteria is service.  But Audie Murphy or Bo Gritz were heros because of much more.

          McCain was heroic to perservere as a POW when he could've let political strings secure early freedom or when he could've stopped the pain by making a video denouncing the U.S.  He didn't.

          I give him his hero badge, but like you, I don't see how that qualifies him to be President, espcially at a time when he is bending over backwards to prove himself to the fringe elements of the radical religious right.

          simplicity is the most difficult of all things

          by RichardWoodcockII on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:53:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Being no Fan of McSame -The Legend is that he (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Asinus Asinum Fricat, Paver, phrogge prince, jay w

      insisted on staying as long as the others.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[2] McCain was immediately offered early release.[36] The North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[41] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[47]

      However

      In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery,[41][36] and McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".[36] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[48] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[41] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[49] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[50] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements,[41] with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[51]

      Saying the Iraq "Surge" worked is like saying Thelma & Louise had a flying car.

      by JML9999 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:30:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Didn't McCain crash mutiple planes? (0+ / 0-)

      War hero or bad pilot?

      by jimreyn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:51:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And how many reprimands did this "hero..." (7+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimreyn, Asinus Asinum Fricat, Dreaming of Better Days, phrogge prince, BoiseBlue, cachola, RTAtlanta

    ... get for how many jets he crashed before being shot down over North Viet Nam?

    Incompetence made him a POW; yet somehow being that POW made him a "hero." I'm so over this shi* that simply being in the military makes one a "hero."

    When someone is simply doing their job, that is not heroic.

    And incompetence is certainly NOT heroic.

    A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude --Pablo Neruda

    by justiceputnam on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:25:41 AM PDT

  •  I respect his courage (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phrogge prince, cachola

    and that he endured with grace hardships I wouldn't wish anyone.  I have nothing but sympathy for him in what he had to bear.  Hero?  I'm not so sure about that.  He bombed people he didn't have to see and to me there's nothing very heroic about that.  He did risk his life and his freedom to do it, so he was certainly brave.  But he volunteered to kill people and I'm not really impressed by that.  I tend to consider heroes the ones who saved their comrades' lives, or kept their lieutenant from massacring a village full of children, moms, and old people, things like that.

    To me, the only "real" war heroes are the ones that stop wars.

    Even if I accepted the media definition of "hero", I don't see how that would entitle or qualify anybody to the job of running the country.  This dude can't remember the difference between shi'a and sunni.  Things like that are more important for a high level bureaucrat than the courage it takes to endure great physical hardships.

    I think you're right in your perception that Obama (Clinton too) are harping on his heroism to make it less significant later on.

    by Urizen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:34:35 AM PDT

  •  I used to like McCain for his 'maverick' status. (0+ / 0-)

    I stopped liking him when it became so evident that he was a whore who would shake anybody's hand for a vote, reverse any position for a vote, do damn near anything to curry the favor of this group or that leading up to an election.

    We can surely all sympathize with anyone in service to his country who becomes a captive and who is subsequently tortured.  But being tortured is not in and of itself a reason for calling someone a war hero.  Unfortunate? Yes.  Heroic? No.

    Maybe he can be marginalized as a candidate by praising him to high heaven as a 'hero' -- that and not much more.

    by phrogge prince on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:37:21 AM PDT

  •  Getting shot down and being tortured.... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimreyn, Asinus Asinum Fricat

    ...starts the hero story. Taking a stand against torture would round it off nicely. McCain's siding with the torturers in our government is so unheroic!

    I have to throw this in regarding the USS Forestal which John McCain took down, resulting in hundreds of deaths...

    Because of a shortage of thousand-pound bombs, old Composition B bombs had been loaded from the ammunition ship USS Diamond Head, instead of safer H6, capable of withstanding high heat or exploding with low order. About 10:50 (local time), a Zuni rocket fired from an F-4 Phantom II by an electrical power surge hit an A-4 Skyhawk getting ready to launch, piloted by Lt. Cmdr. John McCain. The missile struck and knocked off the aircraft's fuel tank and started a fire. With his aircraft surrounded by flames, John McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the censoredpit, walking down the nose, and jumping off the refueling probe. Video tape shot aboard the Forrestal shows McCain narrowly escaping the explosion[1].

    One minute and thirty-four seconds after the impact, the "Comp. B" bomb exploded underneath McCain's plane, starting a major fire which threatened to destroy the ship. The two A-4s ahead of McCain's plane were engulfed in the flaming JP-5 jet fuel spewing from them. A bomb dropped to the deck, rolled about 6 feet (2 m) and came to rest in a pool of burning fuel.

    Nine major explosions on the flight deck occurred; eight of those were caused by the "Comp. B" bombs and the other occurred between an old and a new bomb. The explosions left large holes in the flight deck, causing the jet fuel to drain into the interior of the ship, causing massive fires in the stern (rear) section. The fire left 132 Forrestal crewmen dead, 62 more injured, and two missing and presumed dead. The ship returned to Norfolk for extensive repairs. During the post-fire refit, the ship's 5" guns were removed.

    War hero.

    "Good to be here, good to be anywhere." --Keith Richards

    by bradreiman on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:39:31 AM PDT

  •  Calling respect on McCain only serves to boost .. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimreyn, bic momma

    When Obama heaps praise and respect on McCain's military service, over and over, he only serves to boost McCain in the eyes of voters.

    Also, it exemplifies the fact that Obama, nor Hillary for that matter, have any military experience.

    Obama is falling into the trap the Republicans have laid for the Dems in selecting McCain. Obama should just ignore the fact that McCain has veteran credentials.

    by BrainTrust on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:51:59 AM PDT

  •  What is a War Hero (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kate mckinnon, statistic

    John Mc Cain is not a war hero.
    John McCain was a prisoner of war.
    That does not qualify him to be a "war hero".
    Any one of those guys or gals that go out into the streets of Baghdad is much more a hero than
    John McCain.  And they are being ordered to be
    heros.
    Republicans create their own "war heroes".
    G.H.W. Bush was a Republican "designer hero".
    He was allegedly shot down over the Phillipine
    Sea, comveniently near an island where he was rescued by an American submarine that just happened onto him.
    That is no even a likely story to any sailor that ever did "plane guard" detail.
    They say the bigger the lie the more the gullible will believe it.

    by edscan on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:03:53 PM PDT

  •  It's another reason not to like Obama... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tRueffert

    Considering that it's a lie.

    McCain isn't a war hero. What about participating in a war is heroic in and of itself? That he wasn't competent enough to avoid capture? That he underwent torture? Shit... there's how many in Guantanamo that are war heroes by that definition?

    by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:05:51 PM PDT

  •  Being a POW does not qualify you to be POTUS (0+ / 0-)

    Neither does being a navy pilot.

    by linnie on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:04:27 PM PDT

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